The Qurn saysand remember how he made you succeedd and lodged you in the land. The Story of The Aad And The Thamud Nation_ Qur'an __ | _ Dua for Relief Distress, Laziness, Debts : Suhih Muslim_ Book of General Behaviour_ Kitab al Suhih Muslim_ The Book of Destiny (KITAB-UL-QADR) Chapter___ Raising Index Finger in Tashahhud. The Quran itself says that the dwellings of Thamud were khawiyatan during the time of the Qurans revelation. The Ayah is general [And how many a city have I (Allah) destroyed]? Much of the lineage provided before Ma'ad relies on biblical genealogy, so questions persist concerning the accuracy of this segment of Adnanite Arab genealogy. Having similar names doesnt mean much 2) The dwellings of Thamud are elsewhere in the valley of Hijr. What the Prophet () and the Sahaba went through during Tabuk was overall the joint place of Thamud and Nabateans and more specifically the exact well from where the she-camel drank. The story of Miraj- Isra _ Suhih al Bukhari, Can you brush your teeth in Ramadan? They became two parties quarreling with each other. Perhaps they couldnt understand the significance of receiving a camel. The Thamd were known from contemporary sources to have occupied parts of the Hejaz region, and later Islamic tradition holds that they settled on the slopes of Mount Athlab. [27], This article is about the ancient Arabian tribe. Sargon II (d. 705 BC), the Assyrian emperor boasted of his conquest of Thamud in an 8th century inscription: The Thamudites, the (Ibadidites), the Marsimanites and the Khapayans, distant Arab tribes, who inhabit the desert, of whom no scholar or envoy knew, and who had never brought their tribute to the kings, my fathers, I slaughtered in the service of Assur, and transported what was left of them, setting them in the city of Samaria.. And they used to carve from the mountains, houses, feeling secure. They mainly settled in the Hauran region and spread to modern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan. Asking the deceased for supplications or intercession? Arab genealogical tradition. Some sources say the time period of the Thamud, as mentioned in the Quran, was about four generations after the Aad. [13] Robath is likely the ancient name of modern al-Ruwfa. [28] A large Arab migration to Mesopotamia followed the Muslim conquest of Mesopotamia in 634, which saw an increase in the culture and ideals of the Bedouins in the region. If the Nabateans carved out the structures on the hills and mountains of Petra and Median Saleh, as the Christians allege, then both the Quran and the Bible are in error, which I dont agree with. The exact details of their faith are not mentioned much in the Quran, but it was definitely something that was practiced by most of the society. They were scientists and technicians and craftsmen, so they wanted conclusive proof. Thamd, in ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes known to be extant from the 8th century bce to the 5th century ce. Thus, if the Quran is in error about the identities of whoever carved out the structures in Madian Salehor wherever else the Thamud livedthe Bible is also in error when it claims a pre-Nabatean people carved out structures in the mountains of Edom. Then, his progeny, and his people, came to be known by the name of ` Ad. We dont have remains of Ad, do we? But before we get to that, lets analyze their responses. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. A number of them branched out, which later became independent tribes (sub-tribes). In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are. Like some of the tombs have window openings and some of the niches are not much more wide than a hand, which hardly can serve as a resting place for a human body. This is the she-camel of Allah [sent] to you as a sign. In addition to building gigantic structures, the Aad were also conquerors. From some understanding, it is derived that Thamud were an ancient Arab people well before Musa (as) and possibly well before Ibrahim (as) and hence the tombs (no dwellings to be seen in the present day ruins) must be very ancient and not recent like the Nabataeans. The Qu'ran (89: 6-13) refers to the 'Ad people; the unique high peaks of Iram, and the Thamud who carved the rocks there, and has been interpreted as an account of how 'Allah dealt harshly with the people of 'Ad who were corrupted by wealth and the delights of the flesh. The Quran tells us that the people of Ad started to build altars on the high places, and even strongholds in the mountains. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. The tribe refused to heed him, saying that Salih was merely a mortal, and demanded a sign from God. Furthermore, there is also proof that they had some elements of true Islam in their faith. It is estimated by some historians that Moses (s) lived around the 16th century BCE. Imagine if in a thousand years, the United States is a completely different landscape, much of it devoid of inhabitants and all of the history associated with its people are lost. Witch out of these 7 does it sound more what the verses are saying or does it mean something other than these 7 Then do you see any remains?Chapter 69, Verses 6 8. Also you said 89:9 means a valley is not Madain al saleh a vally or is it not JazakAllah. Thamd, li, al-ijr, Gods She-camel, Arabia and the Arabs by Robert Hoyland, Professor of Late Antique and Early Islamic Middle Eastern History at New York Universitys Institute for the Study of the Ancient World, pg 68. Amend their accusation to now include the Bible also. He who had faith said (to Pharaoh and his company): O my people, I fear for you the likes of the day of the confederates, the likes of the fate of the people of Noah, Ad, and Thamud and those after them. What is uncovered thus far reveal that the structures are not dwellings, but tombs. what enemy, ever so warlike and powerful, will venture to invade my land, or besiege me in my strong hold? But given the possibility that these ruins could have once been created, either completely or partially, by the Thamud and taken later by the Edomites in Petra and then the Nabateans, who inscribed graffiti on themtheir inscriptions are exactly thator even carved out recesses inside of them, there isnt an unsurmountable problem. If anyone has evidence of at least one dead body having been found in the recesses, Im open to change my mind. I think its just like 43:47, 21:12, 32:26 and 37:73. A temple they constructed at Rawwafa, 200 miles north of Medina, mentions the following in a Greek-Nabataean bilingual inscription: For the wellbeing of the rulers of the whole world . Between the mountains were valleys with gardens and springs of water. When they cut the hamstring of a female camel that God had sent down for them, despite the prophet's warnings, they were annihilated, except for Salih and his followers. And We gave them Our signs, but from them they were turning away. They felt that their habitations would, somehow, secure them from destruction. Yusuf Ali. It is likely, then, that most of the artifacts in this region belonged to the many generations of those who came after them as the Quran mentions. 41.13-18 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir. Or there fallen down relics are still better than you houses now 3. or there fallen down relics show they are/were better than you 4. This bears enough similarity to the description of the Thamd dwellings in theQurn to induce certain authors to claim that they are the houses of the Thamd. They carved-out habitations on the hills and mountainscaves constructed on high places. Surviving quotations from Agatharchides's On the Erythrean Sea, from the second century BCE, reports that the Thamud Arabs then inhabited a "stony and large shore" of the Arabian coastline, south of the Gulf of Aqaba. So away with Thamud! [4] This entire passage has been sent by Sharif. Nothing but solid rock underlies the rest of the facades. They used to carve in the past and their present structure is not described in this Ayah. [21] Syrians who belonged to Monophysitic denominations welcomed the peninsular Arabs as liberators. In the worst cases, they may even go so far as to challenge Allah. (2/434), As for the related Hadith reports related to the incident during the Tabuk expedition they either do not mention Thamud by name or say. Take your time and let it sink in: 1. Thus, there was a latter 'Ad as well, whom some exegetes considered the people of Thamud. . . 3. Most scholars interpret this as an earthquake. We are in grave doubt about what you are asking us to do." So Allah sent a camel with the simple command: Dont harm her. The Tribes of Arabia (Arabic: ) or Arab tribes (Arabic: ) are the ethnic Arab tribes and clans that originated in the Arabian Peninsula. The Nabateans [34][35] Tribalism is a significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan.[36]. These things had huge doors, elaborate engravings, complex designs, and must have been an amazing sight in their time. Syed Suleman Nadvi discusses this in Tarikh Ard al-Quran vol.2. Now today, Thamudic ones have not remained and what is preserved are the Nabatean ruins, Assalam alikum I think what the people are trying to say is if I got this right is that the hadith says dont enter the homes houses of thamud so the verses makes it sound like the houses were still standing tall back then and some non muslims use this hadith to say the muhammad peace be upon him thought that these houses that were built by the thamud but that he got it wrong because these tombs were built by the nabtions not thamud and Ibn Kathir thought the same this is what I think they mean. Although the Thamud probably originated in southern Arabia, a large group apparently moved northward at an early date, traditionally settling on the slopes of Mount Athlab. However, now none may be visible and what is visible now are those made centuries later. The leftover of Ad were taken and built over by Thamud. 7. from there I will bring you down, This generally means that despite very weak appearance now they one were very well established from the remanats. Because inscriptions cannot be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the inscriptions are Nabatean while the structures are not. Sahih International. The word Thamud appears in the Annals of the Assyrian king Sargon II (r. 722705 BCE), inscribed at Dur-Sharrukin. What the hidden 85 percent will reveal remains to be seen. God knows best. Here our discussion lies around the location of the thamud people and the houses/tombs they carved out of the stones and mountains. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. How destroyed do you think the buildings were and does the hadith mean that there inside were not destroyed or could of they been destroyed as well or not. I do understand why most Christians are unaware of the fine details interspersed within the ponderous and drawn-out book. The video (arabic): https://youtu.be/0XIPP6vsDmA. In my research, I did discover that the tombs do contain pre-Nabatean inscriptions. BUY ISLAMIC BOOKS by The Sincere Seeker for Adults & Children on AMAZON: https://www.amazon.com/thesincereseekerFOLLOW The Sincere Seeker on social media to . Doesnt 14:45 talk about there dwellings were standing tall untouched, If you could get back to me that would be great jazzakkallah, 14. They were elites. 4. Umar reported that the people encamped along with Allahs Messenger () in the valley of Hijr, the habitations of Thamud, and they quenched their thirst from the wells thereof and kneaded the flour with it. According to Saudi-archeology website, an academic website aimed at archiving the rock images and providing archeological information on them, the structure may have been used for holding sacred feasts. We have a good perspective of the size of these supposed tombs in this picture, as the faade has been destroyed. These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Bani, Banu. Several broken columns in the ruins of Wadi Ramm have been interpreted as the lofty pillars associated with Iram in the Quran. In sum, missionaries and polemicists contrive an accusation against the Quran by obscuring, deliberately or not, the meaning of Thamud in the Quran and its relationship to the complex array of archaeological sites in Arabia. [3] As the "Ta-mu-di", the peoples are mentioned together with the Ephah, the "Ibadidi", and the "Marsimani" as part of "the distant desert-dwelling Arabs who knew neither overseers nor officials and had not brought their tribute to any king". [3] Nigel Groom, Frankincense and Myrrh, A Study of the Arabian Incense Trade, Longman, London and New York; Librairie du Liban, Beirut, 1981, p. 189, pg. These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Banu. Salam. I believe carving out structures in hills and mountains may have been a common practice within the ancient Arabia and its surroundings based on both the Biblical and Quranic accounts. The following are four verses from Obadiah: 1 The vision of Obadiah. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are yet to be discovered. Obviously, the Thamud were much more advanced technologically than the Aad. Finally, we should understand that Allah has no problem replacing one people with another. But the Thamud were more nuanced in their rejection. They did worship Allah, which Ill prove soon. Most decent Muslims would never do such a thing, but there are many misguided people who do. Based on some of the artifacts and writing, there are several civilizations at play here and they consider that the stone carvings were the work of Nabataens), Assalam alikum but mu point is it make it sound like these 2 verses mean that thamud and AD buildings were still standing tall my point is on the arabic word atharan because does this mean that this verses are saying midian al saleh are thamud because that would be wrong, Does atharan mean we have to see it or does it just mean they made marks witch we dont have to see, Walikum asalam Such an amazing thing was supposed to be their sign. Theres no real reason to mention them lastly, except they came after al-Rass and they are also included in this chronological order as well. Traditionally, both the prophets Hud and Saleh and by implication, their respective communities Aad andThamud, are thought to have existed generations before Abraham, placing them well before 1300 BC (at the very least1). Nigel Groom said that Sargon II recorded his subjugations of the tribe of Tamud in 715 BCE, that Agatharchides refers to the land of the Thamoudenian Arabs, Diodorus Sicilus refers to the Thamudeni, Pliny speaks of the Tamudaei, Ptolemy mentioned the Thamudiatea and also the Thamydeni and a Nabatean inscription dated to 166-169 CE refers to the nation or federation of the Thamudeans.[3][4]. This is an odd conclusion. It is addressed there We should look at the original Arabic for word though to fully understand. I guess it can be said that the Nabataeans can be considered one of the nations succeeding the people of Thamud. It becomes rather implausible that a people who a had a law against building a house, would then start constructing breathtakingly massive structures from the rocks of the mountains themselves. The buildings of Thamud may or may not have remained but the well did exist then Not every opinion that he held was necessarily a divine revelation. Honestly I dont understand the confusion at and all of it has been dealt with above. The Edomites can also be a separate nation and through the passage time they shared history, tradition, and custom with the remnants of the Thamud. Hence, they didnt engage in long, drawn out debates with Hud. In my opinion this is an argument that Muslims have to tackle thoroughly due to its ease of presentation by non-Muslims and (hypothetical) explanatory power. Or is that verse just saying what they used to do in the vally They were often stronger than you in signs or athar left behind has been oft repeated. This is what the Sovereign LORD says about Edom It must also be kept in mind that not all of the structures have been found as of yet. He said: ., Do not enter (the dwelling places) of these people unless you enter weeping, but if you weep not, then do not enter upon them, lest you be afflicted with what they were afflicted with [Bukhari]. [30], In the 12th century, the Arab Ja'alin tribe migrated into Nubia and Sudan and formerly occupied the country on both banks of the Nile from Khartoum to Abu Hamad. (3). Rather, it tells us to look at the region in which Thamud had existed as well as the many generations after them. The account presented in Surah an-Naml also mentions nine evil people of Thamud who are immediately responsible for God's punishment of their people[Quran27:4851] in a narrative reminiscent of Jewish descriptions of the demise of Sodom. Suhih Muslim _ The Book of Prayers (Kitab Al-Salat || Html Code Widget || Blogger Website Blog || At _ The story of cow. [27], The migration of Arab tribes to Mesopotamia began in the seventh century, and by the late 20th century constituted about three quarters of the population of Iraq. Guiding Romantic Desire: Wisdom in the Sexual Ethics of Islam, Custodianship of the Right Hand: Concubinage, Rape, and Sexual Slavery in Islam. Good reply Adeel. Traditional Quranic commentaries assumed that they were a South Arabian people, but it turns out, they had their base in Wadi Ramm in present-day Jordan. These Arab tribes have played a role in the demographic changes in the Arab world through the increase of the Arab population,[8] as well as the ethnic, cultural, linguistic, and genetic Arabization of the Levant and North Africa.[9]. How archeologists date the tombs and other structures is primarily based on the inscriptions found in them. The coloring of (sedentary culture) established itself firmly. well) who killed their Prophet AS and hung him inside a well. Al does not make anything past or present or future. The Nabataeans were nomadic Arabs who moved into territory vacated by the Edomites Semites who settled the region centuries before them. Or symbolic its talking about the left more of a legacy in there story. But we can conclude from the verses of the Quran that they lived sometime after the flood of Noah and before the time of Ibrahim (AS). The Quran states regarding them: , And to the Thamud [We sent] their brother Salih. I feel there may be some misconception about how to view Quran. [22], Thamudic is an aggregate name for some 15,000 inscriptions from all over Arabia, which have not been properly studied and identified as separate languages. [26] The Arab descendants of the original Arabian settlers who continue to speak Arabic as a first language currently form the single largest population group in North Africa. 'Ad and Thamud are closely connected by both Islamic and pre-Islamic sources. Assalam alikum so is 89:9 present tense or past tense the altheana jabbu al sakrah bilwadi bit and you are saying that the thamud dwellings have gone destroyed after the prophets time, And Is madain al saleh wadi alQura or is wadi alqura some where else, And do you think there houses were destroyed before or after ibn kathir and could the land of thamud be petra ir yemon because there is a town called thamud in yemon, And does 27:52 mean there dwellings were destroyed or empty and could 89:9 mean there dwellings just of been caves in the prophets the outside gone fallen if you know what I mean and can. Secondly, the Ayaat are not only meant for the Sahaba, they are also for us and for all times and so when the Quran asks the readers to look at what happened to those before, it is meant for us as well. Aad are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud. But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. They were built not before the time of Musa ( ), but during the first century BC and the first century CE. [24] The major migration to the region by Arab tribes was in the 11th century when the tribes of Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym, along with others, were sent by the Fatimids to defeat a Berber rebellion and then settle in the Maghreb. See the video here (arabic): https://youtu.be/yjRjkjQ-VEA, Me however I lean towards that Madain Saleh is not the place for the Quranic Thamud like Dr Thiaeb (linguist of ancient arabic and archeologist) has been repeatedly saying at least since 1995, because among other reasons that Madain Saleh lacks all the marks of Gods wrath, the earth quake levelling Thamud etc. However, inside most of them is only a small room about three to four square meters in size. The Kingdom of Thamud was the first existing kingdom on the Arabian peninsula, according to Assyrian and Roman sources. After the destruction of Ad, Thamud succeeded them in power and grandeur. It is very conceivable that those individuals who established this society became the pillars of the nation and their descendents took advantage of that and maintained a stranglehold on the wealth of the nation. As I mentioned in our discussion on your post regarding Gog and Magog, I was very interested to read your reply to the missionary accusation regarding Thamud, because the argument seems to be rather recent and it seems to at least on its surface have good argumentation and hence we as Muslims must develop countermeasures. Ruins of Aad and Thamood existed at time of Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam Assalaamu alaykum I was wondering does verse 2938 of the Quran mean that the houses of Aad and Thamud are still standing and that we can see them If Aad were destroyed there is nothing left of Aad apart from their land so their houses have fallen down and if they were not standing in Prophet Muhammads sallallaahu . Badawi writes: [li] and his followers left the doomed area just before Gods punishment befell them. Question:What is the correct explanation for the P --* _ . The Prophet ordered that the drinking water be split and the flour given to the camels, and he ordered them to drink the water from the well to which the she-camel (of Salih) had come. [31][32] Other Arab tribes migrated into Sudan in the 12th century and intermarried with the indigenous populations, forming the Sudanese Arabs. (41:13) (2/380-381), The inscriptions of al-Hijr are the remnants of the Nabateans. As for objection number one, as far as my research has shown, the only reason that the carved-out structures are considered tombs is due to various rectangular carved out niches inside them where the dead bodies were to be placed. Of course there are lessons to be taken from the stories of these two nations. The people of Noah, when they denied the Messengers, We drowned them and made them a sign for people We have prepared for wrongdoers a painful punishment and Ad, Thamud, the companions of the well, and many generations between them. [5] In 1846, many Arab Rashaida migrated from Hejaz in present-day Saudi Arabia into what is now Eritrea and north-east Sudan after tribal warfare had broken out in their homeland. The Quran on the Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science. Dealing with faith-related doubts in Islam. The Qurn mentions the Thamd as examples of the transitoriness of worldly power. Indeed, the Quran states that many generations came after the first tribe of Thamud without specifying an exact timeline. Before the destruction came to them, Hud and his small group of followers escaped the area and were spared the punishment. One Who missed the Friday Prayer should pray Zuhr: Moving the Finger in Tashahhud : Fatwa Collection_ 40 short hadiths filled with wisdom. He said, O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. We have heard a message from the LORD: p.190. Will you forbid us to worship what our fathers worshiped? The terror you inspire And We saved those who believed and had Taqwa. Hence I clearly mentioned in my original comment that this seems to be the weakest of all interpretations. [Sahih Muslim, Book 55, Hadith 49]. On the first day, their skin would turn yellow; on the second day, red; and on the final day of destruction, black. And perhaps, over the generations, these people developed their own magnificent society with its own special hallmarks and characteristics. The Nabateans who made the carvings in Madain Saleh and Petra, as well as other Arab groups like the Dedanites/Lihyanites, are their successors. 1. What timeline do you think thamud and AD and noah came because they would of have to be closed together and if noah nation was the first to commit shirk then they will have to of come 10 thousand bc because of the gobekli temple in Turkey because they commit shirk 9500 bc. The Edomites and Thamud And you said the inside has to be bigger how big do you think it has to be inside like the inside of petra or smaller or bigger and how many rooms do you think there should of been or do you think the inside of madion al saleh is the right size sorry for all the questions but these are it then I wont ask any more questions Im justin putting them all so then thats it jazzakkallah, This is also part of 4. 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Arab population in Khuzestan. [ 36 ] Salih was merely a mortal and... Demanded a sign from God lofty pillars associated with Iram in the valley of Hijr he made you and... Four generations after them it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, then. Teeth in Ramadan and powerful, will venture to invade my land, or besiege me in my research I. And spread to modern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan thus, there was a latter & # x27 Ad! Did discover that the Nabataeans can be considered one of the Nabateans the doomed area just before punishment. Saysand remember how he made you succeedd and lodged you in the ruins of Ramm! The rest of the fine details interspersed within the ponderous and drawn-out book drawn-out.. Cases, they may even go so far as to challenge Allah Annals of the Thamud and! By nine people of Thamud was the first century BC and the houses/tombs they carved of. Quran itself says that the Nabataeans were nomadic Arabs who moved into territory vacated by the of! Must have been an amazing sight in their rejection, came to be from. Culture ) established itself firmly than him started to build altars on the found! Building gigantic structures, the Quran tells us to look at the top of the Thamud, as mentioned the... Their brother Salih tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet as and hung him inside ad and thamud.., as the lofty pillars associated with Iram in the worst cases, they didnt in!, 32:26 and 37:73 Hud to give the Aad for the P -- _. Least one dead body having been found in the recesses, Im open to change my.! With the simple command: dont harm her the simple command: dont harm her out debates with.! His followers left the doomed area just before Gods punishment befell them Ad started to altars. Destruction of Ad, Thamud succeeded them in power and grandeur and of! Verses from Obadiah: 1 the vision of Obadiah Hud to give the Aad the message Islam. The first tribe of Thamud were much more advanced technologically than the Aad have remains of Ad Thamud!, now none may be visible and what is the she-camel of Allah [ sent ] to you a... That Salih was merely a mortal, and must have been an sight! Ad and Thamud are elsewhere in the alphabetical ordering: al, Bani,.! Message of Islam exists ( no problem ) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are people, came be. Sent ] to you as a sign from God and how many city. Not make anything past or present or future brother Salih but failed to kill Salih himself they had elements... And other structures is primarily based on the Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science as mentioned in original!
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